日常办公中级11:44conversation

10 Ways to Have a Better Conversation

更好交谈的十种方法

资深电台主持人 Celeste Headlee 结合多年访谈经验,提炼出十条让交谈更走心的实用原则:别一心多用、别说教、多用开放式提问、顺其自然、不懂就说不懂、别抢着比惨、专注倾听……而核心其实只有一条——真正把对方放在心上。演讲幽默犀利,是学习地道社交与职场沟通表达的绝佳素材。

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台词(72 句)

00:12

All right, I want to see a show of hands: how many of you have unfriended someone on Facebook because they said something offensive about politics or religion, childcare, food?

好,我想请大家举个手:你们当中有多少人,因为别人在 Facebook 上说了些关于政治、宗教、育儿或饮食的冒犯性言论,就把对方拉黑了?

00:23

(Laughter) And how many of you know at least one person that you avoid because you just don't want to talk to them?

(笑声)又有多少人身边至少有那么一个,你会刻意躲开、纯粹是不想跟他说话的人?

00:30

(Laughter) You know, it used to be that in order to have a polite conversation, we just had to follow the advice of Henry Higgins in "My Fair Lady": Stick to the weather and your health.

(笑声)要知道,从前想礼貌地聊聊天,我们只要照《窈窕淑女》里亨利·希金斯的建议做就行:只聊天气和身体健康。

00:41

But these days, with climate change and anti-vaxxing, those subjects -- (Laughter) are not safe either.

可如今,有了气候变化和反疫苗之争,连这些话题——(笑声)也不再安全了。

00:47

So this world that we live in, this world in which every conversation has the potential to devolve into an argument, where our politicians can't speak to one another and where even the most trivial of issues have someone fighting both passionately for it and against it, it's not normal.

我们生活的这个世界,任何一次交谈都可能演变成争吵,政客们无法彼此对话,哪怕最微不足道的议题,都有人为它激烈地站台、也有人激烈地反对——这不正常。

01:04

Pew Research did a study of 10,000 American adults, and they found that at this moment, we are more polarized, we are more divided, than we ever have been in history.

皮尤研究中心调查了一万名美国成年人,发现此时此刻,我们比历史上任何时候都更加两极分化、更加分裂。

01:14

We're less likely to compromise, which means we're not listening to each other. And we make decisions about where to live, who to marry and even who our friends are going to be, based on what we already believe.

我们越来越不愿妥协,这意味着我们不再倾听彼此。我们决定住在哪里、和谁结婚、甚至和谁交朋友,全都基于自己既有的立场。

01:26

Again, that means we're not listening to each other. A conversation requires a balance between talking and listening, and somewhere along the way, we lost that balance.

再说一遍,这意味着我们没有在倾听彼此。一次交谈需要说与听之间的平衡,而不知从何时起,我们弄丢了这份平衡。

01:35

Now, part of that is due to technology. The smartphones that you all either have in your hands or close enough that you could grab them really quickly.

部分原因在于科技。就是你们此刻要么攥在手里、要么放在一伸手就能抓到的地方的那些智能手机。

01:42

According to Pew Research, about a third of American teenagers send more than a hundred texts a day.

皮尤研究中心的数据显示,大约三分之一的美国青少年每天要发一百多条短信。

01:48

And many of them, almost most of them, are more likely to text their friends than they are to talk to them face to face.

而他们当中许多人,几乎是大多数人,更愿意给朋友发短信,也不愿面对面交谈。

01:56

There's this great piece in The Atlantic. It was written by a high school teacher named Paul Barnwell. And he gave his kids a communication project.

《大西洋月刊》上有篇很棒的文章,作者是位名叫保罗·巴恩韦尔的高中老师。他给学生们布置了一个沟通作业。

02:03

He wanted to teach them how to speak on a specific subject without using notes. And he said this: “I came to realize...” (Laughter) "I came to realize that conversational competence might be the single most overlooked skill we fail to teach.

他想教学生如何不看讲稿、就一个特定话题侃侃而谈。他说:「我逐渐意识到……」(笑声)「我逐渐意识到,交谈能力也许是我们最被忽视、却没能教给学生的一项技能。

02:19

Kids spend hours each day engaging with ideas and each other through screens, but rarely do they have an opportunity to hone their interpersonal communications skills.

孩子们每天花好几个小时透过屏幕接触各种想法、彼此交流,却极少有机会磨练面对面的人际沟通能力。

02:28

It might sound like a funny question, but we have to ask ourselves: Is there any 21st-century skill more important than being able to sustain coherent, confident conversation?"

这问题听起来也许有点好笑,但我们不得不扪心自问:在二十一世纪,还有哪项技能比得上『能够自信、连贯地维持一场交谈』更重要呢?」

02:39

Now, I make my living talking to people: Nobel Prize winners, truck drivers, billionaires, kindergarten teachers, heads of state, plumbers.

我这份工作,就是靠跟人交谈谋生:诺贝尔奖得主、卡车司机、亿万富翁、幼儿园老师、国家元首、水管工。

02:48

I talk to people that I like. I talk to people that I don’t like. I talk to some people that I disagree with deeply on a personal level.

我跟喜欢的人聊,也跟不喜欢的人聊;有些人我在个人层面上跟他们观点相去甚远,我也照聊不误。

02:55

But I still have a great conversation with them. So I'd like to spend the next 10 minutes or so teaching you how to talk and how to listen.

但我照样能和他们聊得很尽兴。所以接下来的十来分钟,我想教教大家怎么说、怎么听。

03:04

Many of you have already heard a lot of advice on this, things like look the person in the eye, think of interesting topics to discuss in advance, look, nod and smile to show that you're paying attention, repeat back what you just heard or summarize it.

这方面的建议,很多人想必都听过一大堆,比如直视对方的眼睛、提前想好有趣的话题、用眼神、点头和微笑表示你在专心听、把刚听到的话复述一遍或总结一下。

03:21

So I want you to forget all of that. It is crap. (Laughter) There is no reason to learn how to show you're paying attention if you are in fact paying attention.

而我想请你们把这些统统忘掉。全是废话。(笑声)如果你真的在专心听,又何必去学怎么『装出』专心听的样子呢?

03:35

(Laughter) (Applause) Now, I actually use the exact same skills as a professional interviewer that I do in regular life.

(笑声)(掌声)其实,我作为专业访谈者用的那套技巧,和日常生活里用的一模一样。

03:46

So, I'm going to teach you how to interview people, and that's actually going to help you learn how to be better conversationalists.

所以我要教你们如何采访别人,而这实际上会帮你们成为更会聊天的人。

03:53

Learn to have a conversation without wasting your time, without getting bored, and, please God, without offending anybody.

学会聊天,既不浪费时间、也不觉得无聊,而且——拜托老天保佑——还不得罪任何人。

04:00

We've all had really great conversations. We've had them before. We know what it's like. The kind of conversation where you walk away feeling engaged and inspired, or where you feel like you've made a real connection or you've been perfectly understood.

我们都有过特别棒的交谈,以前就有过,那种感觉大家都懂:聊完走开时,你觉得意犹未尽、深受启发,或是觉得自己和对方真正走近了,又或是被完完全全地理解了。

04:13

There is no reason why most of your interactions can't be like that. So I have 10 basic rules. I'm going to walk you through all of them, but honestly, if you just choose one of them and master it, you'll already enjoy better conversations.

你的大多数交流,没道理做不到这样。我总结了十条基本原则,会逐一讲给你们听;不过说实话,哪怕你只挑其中一条、把它练到家,你的谈话质量就已经能提升了。

04:27

Number one: Don't multitask. And I don't mean just set down your cell phone or your tablet or your car keys or whatever is in your hand.

第一条:别一心多用。我说的不只是放下手机、平板、车钥匙或手里任何东西。

04:35

I mean, be present. Be in that moment. Don't think about your argument you had with your boss.

我是说,要全身心投入,活在当下这一刻。别去想你和老板吵的那一架。

04:42

Don't think about what you're going to have for dinner. If you want to get out of the conversation, but don't be half in it and half out of it.

别去想晚饭吃什么。如果你想抽身结束这场谈话,那就干脆退出;但千万别一半在里头、一半在外头。

04:50

Number two: Don't pontificate. If you want to state your opinion without any opportunity for response or argument or pushback or growth, write a blog.

第二条:别摆出一副说教的架势。如果你只想单方面发表观点,不给对方任何回应、争辩、质疑或共同成长的机会,那你去写博客吧。

05:02

(Laughter) Now, there's a really good reason why I don't allow pundits on my show: Because they're really boring.

(笑声)我的节目从不请那些『名嘴』,是有充分理由的:因为他们实在太无聊了。

05:10

If they're conservative, they're going to hate Obama and food stamps and abortion. If they're liberal, they're going to hate big banks and oil corporations and Dick Cheney.

保守派准会讨厌奥巴马、食品券和堕胎;自由派准会讨厌大银行、石油公司和迪克·切尼。

05:18

Totally predictable. And you don't want to be like that. You need to enter every conversation assuming that you have something to learn.

完全可以预料。你可不想变成那样。你得抱着『自己有东西可学』的心态,去展开每一次交谈。

05:27

The famed therapist M. Scott Peck said that true listening requires a setting aside of oneself.

著名心理治疗师 M·斯科特·派克说过,真正的倾听需要把自我放到一边。

05:34

And sometimes that means setting aside your personal opinion. He said that sensing this acceptance, the speaker will become less and less vulnerable and more and more likely to open up the inner recesses of his or her mind to the listener.

有时候,这意味着把你的个人观点搁到一旁。他说,一旦感受到这种接纳,倾诉者就会越来越少戒备,越来越愿意向倾听者敞开内心最深处。

05:49

Again, assume that you have something to learn. Bill Nye: "Everyone you will ever meet knows something that you don't."

再强调一次,要相信自己有东西可学。比尔·奈说过:『你这辈子遇到的每一个人,都懂一些你不懂的东西。』

05:57

I put it this way: Everybody is an expert in something. Number three: Use open-ended questions.

我会这么说:每个人都是某个领域的行家。第三条:多用开放式问题。

06:06

In this case, take a cue from journalists. Start your questions with who, what, when, where, why or how. If you put in a complicated question, you're going to get a simple answer out.

这一点,不妨向记者取经。用『谁、什么、何时、何地、为什么、怎么样』来开头提问。如果你抛出一个复杂的问题,得到的往往是一个简单的答案。

06:14

If I ask you, "Were you terrified?" you're going to respond to the most powerful word in that sentence, which is "terrified," and the answer is "Yes, I was" or "No, I wasn't."

如果我问你:『你当时害怕吗?』你只会去回应这句话里最有分量的那个词——『害怕』,答案无非是『是的,我怕』或『不,我不怕』。

06:23

"Were you angry?" "Yes, I was very angry." Let them describe it. They're the ones that know. Try asking them things like, "What was that like?"

『你当时生气吗?』『是的,我气坏了。』让对方自己去描述吧,他们才是当事人。不妨试着问:『那是种什么样的感受?』

06:31

"How did that feel?" Because then they might have to stop for a moment and think about it, and you're going to get a much more interesting response.

『那让你有什么感觉?』这样一来,对方也许得停下来想一想,你听到的回答就会有趣得多。

06:40

Number four: Go with the flow. That means thoughts will come into your mind and you need to let them go out of your mind.

第四条:顺其自然。意思是,各种念头会冒进你脑海,而你得让它们从脑海里溜走。

06:49

We've heard interviews often in which a guest is talking for several minutes and then the host comes back in and asks a question which seems like it comes out of nowhere, or it's already been answered.

我们常听到这样的采访:嘉宾滔滔不绝讲了好几分钟,主持人接过话头,却抛出一个不知从哪冒出来、或早就被回答过的问题。

07:00

That means the host probably stopped listening two minutes ago because he thought of this really clever question, and he was just bound and determined to say that.

这说明主持人大概两分钟前就不听了,因为他想到了一个自认为特别妙的问题,一心非把它问出来不可。

07:09

And we do the exact same thing. We're sitting there having a conversation with someone, and then we remember that time that we met Hugh Jackman in a coffee shop.

我们也会犯一模一样的毛病。正和别人坐着聊天,忽然想起某次在咖啡馆偶遇休·杰克曼的事。

07:17

(Laughter) And we stop listening. Stories and ideas are going to come to you. You need to let them come and let them go.

(笑声)于是我们就不听了。各种故事和想法都会冒出来,你要做的是任它们来,也任它们走。

07:26

Number five: If you don't know, say that you don't know. Now, people on the radio, especially on NPR, are much more aware that they're going on the record, and so they're more careful about what they claim to be an expert in

第五条:不懂就说不懂。电台里的人,尤其是 NPR 的主持人,非常清楚自己的话都会被记录在案,所以他们对自己声称精通什么格外谨慎,

07:39

and what they claim to know for sure. Do that. Err on the side of caution. Talk should not be cheap.

对自己声称笃定知道的事也很谨慎。你也该如此。宁可谨慎一点。说话不该是不负责任的。

07:46

Number six: Don't equate your experience with theirs. If they're talking about having lost a family member, don't start talking about the time you lost a family member.

第六条:别把你的经历和对方的相提并论。如果对方在说自己失去了一位亲人,别急着讲你当年失去亲人的事。

07:56

If they're talking about the trouble they're having at work, don't tell them about how much you hate your job. It's not the same. It is never the same.

如果对方在诉说工作上的烦心事,别去讲你有多讨厌自己的工作。这不是一回事,永远都不是一回事。

08:04

All experiences are individual. And, more importantly, it is not about you. You don't need to take that moment to prove how amazing you are or how much you've suffered.

每个人的经历都是独一无二的。更重要的是,此刻的焦点不是你。你没必要抓住这个时机去证明自己有多了不起、或吃过多少苦。

08:15

Somebody asked Stephen Hawking once what his IQ was, and he said, "I have no idea. People who brag about their IQs are losers."

曾有人问史蒂芬·霍金他的智商是多少,他答道:『我不知道。爱炫耀智商的人都是失败者。』

08:21

(Laughter) Conversations are not a promotional opportunity. Number seven: Try not to repeat yourself.

(笑声)交谈不是自我推销的机会。第七条:尽量别老重复自己。

08:32

It's condescending, and it's really boring, and we tend to do it a lot. Especially in work conversations or in conversations with our kids, we have a point to make, so we just keep rephrasing it over and over.

那显得高人一等,而且特别无聊,可我们偏偏很爱这么干。尤其是在工作交谈或跟孩子说话时,我们想强调某个观点,就把它翻来覆去、换着法儿地说。

08:45

Don't do that. Number eight: Stay out of the weeds. Frankly, people don't care about the years, the names, the dates, all those details that you're struggling to come up with in your mind.

别这样。第八条:别陷进细枝末节里。老实说,那些年份、人名、日期,还有你绞尽脑汁去回想的种种细节,别人根本不在乎。

08:59

They don't care. What they care about is you. They care about what you're like, what you have in common.

他们不在乎这些。他们在乎的是你这个人,在乎你是个什么样的人、你们有什么共同点。

09:05

So forget the details. Leave them out. Number nine: This is not the last one, but it is the most important one.

所以把那些细节忘掉,别提了。第九条:这不是最后一条,却是最重要的一条。

09:13

Listen. I cannot tell you how many really important people have said that listening is perhaps the most, the number one most important skill that you could develop.

倾听。多少了不起的人物都说过,倾听也许是你能培养的、排在第一位的最重要技能——这样的例子我都数不过来。

09:23

Buddha said, and I'm paraphrasing, "If your mouth is open, you're not learning." And Calvin Coolidge said, "No man ever listened his way out of a job."

佛陀说过——我大致转述一下——『嘴一张开,你就学不到东西了。』卡尔文·柯立芝也说过:『从没有人因为倾听而丢掉饭碗。』

09:32

(Laughter) Why do we not listen to each other? Number one, we'd rather talk.

(笑声)我们为什么不听彼此说话?第一,我们更爱自己说。

09:39

When I'm talking, I'm in control. I don't have to hear anything I'm not interested in. I'm the center of attention. I can bolster my own identity.

我说话时,一切尽在我的掌控;我不必去听任何我不感兴趣的内容;我是众人瞩目的焦点;我还能强化自己的存在感。

09:47

But there's another reason: We get distracted. The average person talks at about 225 word per minute, but we can listen at up to 500 words per minute.

但还有另一个原因:我们容易分心。一般人每分钟大约说 225 个词,而我们每分钟最多能听懂 500 个词。

09:57

So our minds are filling in those other 275 words. And look, I know, it takes effort and energy to actually pay attention to someone, but if you can't do that, you're not in a conversation.

于是我们的大脑就拿别的东西去填补剩下那 275 个词的空当。我知道,真正专心去听一个人说话,是要花力气、耗精神的;可你要是做不到,那你就不算在交谈。

10:10

You're just two people shouting out barely related sentences in the same place. (Laughter) You have to listen to one another.

你们只是两个待在同一个地方、各自嚷嚷着几乎不相干的句子的人罢了。(笑声)你必须倾听对方。

10:19

Stephen Covey said it very beautifully. He said, "Most of us don't listen with the intent to understand. We listen with the intent to reply."

史蒂芬·柯维说得特别妙。他说:『我们大多数人听别人说话,不是为了理解,而是为了回应。』

10:28

One more rule, number 10, and it’s this one: Be brief. Be interested in other people.

还有最后一条,第十条,就是它:话说得简短些,并对他人多一点好奇。

10:35

You know, I grew up with a very famous grandfather, and there was kind of a ritual in my home. People would come over to talk to my grandparents, and after they would leave, my mother would come over to us, and she’d say, “Do you know who that was?

我有个非常有名的祖父,在我们家有个近乎仪式的习惯。常有人上门来找我的祖父母聊天,等客人一走,母亲就会走到我们跟前说:「你们知道刚才那位是谁吗?

10:48

She was the runner-up to Miss America. He was the mayor of Sacramento. She won a Pulitzer Prize. He's a Russian ballet dancer."

她可是美国小姐的亚军。他是萨克拉门托的市长。她得过普利策奖。他是位俄罗斯芭蕾舞演员。」

10:54

And I kind of grew up assuming everyone has some hidden, amazing thing about them.

就这样,我从小便认定,每个人身上都藏着某种了不起的闪光点。

11:01

And honestly, I think it's what makes me a better host. I keep my mouth shut as often as I possibly can.

老实说,我觉得正是这一点让我成了更好的主持人。我总是尽可能地闭上嘴。

11:07

I keep my mind open. And I’m always prepared to be amazed, and I'm never disappointed.

我让思想保持开放,时刻准备着被惊艳,而我从未失望过。

11:14

You do the same thing. Go out, talk to people, listen to people, and, most importantly, be prepared to be amazed.

你也这么做吧。走出去,和人交谈,倾听他人,而最重要的是,做好被惊艳的准备。

11:24

Thanks. (Applause)

谢谢。(掌声)