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金融财务初级08:44wealth distribution

How equal do we want the world to be? You'd be surprised

我们究竟想要一个多平等的世界?

行为经济学家丹·艾瑞里用「啤酒盲品」开场:预期会给判断上色,要看清一件事就得先遮住标签。他把这一思路搬到财富分配上,用跨国大规模调查摆出三组数字——真实分布、人们以为的分布,以及在罗尔斯「无知之幕」下问出的理想分布,中间隔着认知与愿望两道鸿沟。数据推进清晰,适合练习用英语描述比例、图表与调查结论。

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台词(79 句)

00:04
It would be nice to be objective in life, in many ways.

在生活中的很多方面,保持客观都是件好事。

00:09
The problem is that we have these color-tinted glasses as we look at all kinds of situations.

问题在于,我们看待各种情况时总戴着一副有色眼镜。

00:17
For example, think about something as simple as beer.

举个例子,就说啤酒这么简单的东西吧。

00:20
If I gave you a few beers to taste and I asked you to rate them on intensity and bitterness, different beers would occupy different space.

如果我给你几种啤酒品尝,让你按浓烈度和苦味打分,不同的啤酒会落在不同的位置上。

00:30
But what if we tried to be objective about it? In the case of beer, it would be very simple.

但如果我们试着客观一点呢?就啤酒而言,这很简单。

00:35
What if we did a blind taste? Well, if we did the same thing, you tasted the same beer, now in the blind taste, things would look slightly different.

我们做个盲品怎么样?如果流程完全一样,你尝的还是同一批啤酒,只是改成了盲品,结果就会有些不同。

00:44
Most of the beers will go into one place. You will basically not be able to distinguish them, and the exception, of course, will be Guinness.

大多数啤酒会挤在同一个位置,你基本分辨不出它们的差别;当然,例外永远是健力士。

00:52
(Laughter) Similarly, we can think about physiology.

(笑声)同样地,我们也可以想想生理反应。

00:57
What happens when people expect something from their physiology? For example, we sold people pain medications.

当人们对自己的生理反应抱有预期时,会发生什么?比如,我们卖给一些人止痛药。

01:02
Some people, we told them the medications were expensive. Some people, we told them it was cheap.

对一部分人,我们说这药很贵;对另一部分人,我们说它很便宜。

01:07
And the expensive pain medication worked better. It relieved more pain from people, because expectations do change our physiology.

结果贵的止痛药效果更好,为人们缓解了更多疼痛——因为预期确实会改变我们的生理反应。

01:16
And of course, we all know that in sports, if you are a fan of a particular team, you can't help but see the game develop from the perspective of your team.

当然,我们都知道,看体育比赛时,如果你是某支球队的球迷,你就忍不住会站在自家球队的角度看这场比赛。

01:26
So all of those are cases in which our preconceived notions and our expectations color our world.

所以,这些例子都在说明:我们的成见和预期会给我们眼中的世界上色。

01:33
But what happened in more important questions? What happened with questions that had to do with social justice?

但碰到更重要的问题呢?碰到与社会公正有关的问题时,又会怎样?

01:40
So we wanted to think about what is the blind tasting version for thinking about inequality?

于是我们开始琢磨:思考贫富差距时,那个「盲品版本」该是什么样?

01:47
So we started looking at inequality, and we did some large-scale surveys around the U.S. and other countries.

我们着手研究贫富差距,在美国和其他国家做了几次大规模调查。

01:53
So we asked two questions: Do people know what kind of level of inequality we have?

我们问了两个问题:人们知道我们如今的贫富差距处在什么水平吗?

01:59
And then, what level of inequality do we want to have?

以及,我们希望这个差距处在什么水平?

02:03
So let's think about the first question. Imagine I took all the people in the U.S.

先看第一个问题。设想我把美国所有人都找来,

02:07
and I sorted them from the poorest on the right to the richest on the left, and then I divided them into five buckets:

把最穷的排在最右边、最富的排在最左边,然后把他们分成五组:

02:15
the poorest 20 percent, the next 20 percent, the next, the next, and the richest 20 percent.

最穷的20%、接下来的20%、再下一组、再下一组,最后是最富的20%。

02:20
And then I asked you to tell me how much wealth do you think is concentrated in each of those buckets.

然后我请你告诉我,你觉得每一组各集中了多少财富。

02:26
So to make it simpler, imagine I ask you to tell me, how much wealth do you think is concentrated in the bottom two buckets, the bottom 40 percent?

为了简单一点,设想我干脆问你:你觉得最下面两组、也就是底层40%的人,手里集中了多少财富?

02:36
Take a second. Think about it and have a number. Usually we don't think.

花点时间想一想,心里给出一个数字。我们平时是不会去想的。

02:40
Think for a second, have a real number in your mind. You have it?

现在花一秒钟想想,脑子里要有一个实实在在的数字。想好了吗?

02:44
Okay, here's what lots of Americans tell us.

好,下面是很多美国人给我们的答案。

02:47
They think that the bottom 20 percent has about 2.9 percent of the wealth, the next group has 6.4, so together it's slightly more than nine.

他们认为底层20%大约拥有2.9%的财富,上面一组拥有6.4%,加起来略高于9%。

02:56
The next group, they say, has 12 percent, 20 percent, and the richest 20 percent, people think has 58 percent of the wealth.

再上面一组,他们说是12%,然后是20%,而最富的20%,人们认为拥有58%的财富。

03:06
You can see how this relates to what you thought. Now, what's reality?

你可以对照一下自己刚才的想法。那么,现实又如何呢?

03:11
Reality is slightly different. The bottom 20 percent has 0.1 percent of the wealth.

现实略有不同:底层20%只拥有0.1%的财富。

03:17
The next 20 percent has 0.2 percent of the wealth. Together, it's 0.3.

接下来的20%拥有0.2%的财富。两组加起来是0.3%。

03:22
The next group has 3.9, 11.3, and the richest group has 84-85 percent of the wealth.

再上面一组是3.9%、11.3%,而最富的那一组拥有84%到85%的财富。

03:33
So what we actually have and what we think we have are very different.

所以,我们实际拥有的分配,和我们以为的分配,差得非常远。

03:38
What about what we want? How do we even figure this out?

那我们想要的又是什么?这个问题该怎么问出答案来?

03:42
So to look at this, to look at what we really want, we thought about the philosopher John Rawls.

为了弄清我们真正想要什么,我们想到了哲学家约翰·罗尔斯。

03:48
If you remember John Rawls, he had this notion of what's a just society.

你们要是还记得约翰·罗尔斯,他提出过一个关于「什么是公正社会」的想法。

03:54
He said a just society is a society that if you knew everything about it, you would be willing to enter it in a random place.

他说,公正的社会是这样一个社会:哪怕你对它了如指掌,你依然愿意随机被投放到其中任何一个位置。

04:00
And it's a beautiful definition, because if you're wealthy, you might want the wealthy to have more money, the poor to have less.

这个定义很精彩,因为如果你是富人,你大概会希望富人拿得更多、穷人拿得更少;

04:06
If you're poor, you might want more equality. But if you're going to go into that society in every possible situation, and you don't know, you have to consider all the aspects.

如果你是穷人,你大概会希望更平等一些。但如果你可能落到这个社会的任何位置,而你事先并不知道,你就不得不把所有方面都考虑进去。

04:16
It's a little bit like blind tasting in which you don't know what the outcome will be when you make a decision, and Rawls called this the "veil of ignorance."

这有点像盲品:做决定的时候,你并不知道结果会是什么。罗尔斯把它叫做「无知之幕」。

04:25
So, we took another group, a large group of Americans, and we asked them the question in the veil of ignorance.

于是我们又找了一大批美国人,在「无知之幕」的设定下问他们:

04:32
What are the characteristics of a country that would make you want to join it, knowing that you could end randomly at any place?

一个国家具备哪些特征,才会让你愿意加入它——前提是你可能随机落到任何一个位置?

04:39
And here is what we got. What did people want to give to the first group, the bottom 20 percent?

结果是这样的。对第一组、也就是底层20%,人们愿意分给他们多少?

04:45
They wanted to give them about 10 percent of the wealth. The next group, 14 percent of the wealth, 21, 22 and 32.

他们愿意给这一组大约10%的财富。下一组是14%,接着是21%、22%和32%。

04:55
Now, nobody in our sample wanted full equality. Nobody thought that socialism is a fantastic idea in our sample.

注意,我们的样本里没有一个人想要绝对平等,也没有一个人觉得社会主义是个绝妙的主意。

05:03
But what does it mean?

但这说明了什么?

05:05
It means that we have this knowledge gap between what we have and what we think we have, but we have at least as big a gap between what we think is right to what we think we have.

这说明,在我们实际拥有的和我们以为拥有的之间,隔着一道认知鸿沟;而在我们认为应该如此的和我们以为拥有的之间,还隔着一道至少同样大的鸿沟。

05:16
Now, we can ask these questions, by the way, not just about wealth. We can ask it about other things as well.

顺带一提,这类问题不只能问财富,也能问别的事情。

05:21
So for example, we asked people from different parts of the world about this question, people who are liberals and conservatives, and they gave us basically the same answer.

比如,我们向世界不同地区的人问了这个问题,问了自由派和保守派,得到的答案基本一致。

05:32
We asked rich and poor, they gave us the same answer, men and women, NPR listeners and Forbes readers.

我们问了富人和穷人,答案一样;男人和女人、全国公共广播电台(NPR)的听众和《福布斯》的读者,也是一样。

05:38
We asked people in England, Australia, the U.S. -- very similar answers.

我们问了英国人、澳大利亚人、美国人——答案非常接近。

05:43
We even asked different departments of a university.

我们甚至问了同一所大学里不同的院系。

05:46
We went to Harvard and we checked almost every department, and in fact, from Harvard Business School, where a few people wanted the wealthy to have more and the [poor] to have less, the similarity was astonishing.

我们去哈佛,几乎每个院系都测了一遍;事实上,只有哈佛商学院有少数人希望富人拿得更多、穷人拿得更少,其余答案的一致程度令人吃惊。

05:57
I know some of you went to Harvard Business School. We also asked this question about something else.

我知道你们当中有人念过哈佛商学院。我们还就另一件事问了同样的问题。

06:03
We asked, what about the ratio of CEO pay to unskilled workers?

我们问:CEO 与非技术工人的薪酬比是多少?

06:08
So you can see what people think is the ratio, and then we can ask the question, what do they think should be the ratio?

你可以看到人们以为的比例是多少;接着我们可以再问,他们认为这个比例应该是多少。

06:15
And then we can ask, what is reality? What is reality? And you could say, well, it's not that bad, right?

然后我们还可以问:现实是多少?现实是多少?你也许会说,还没那么糟嘛,对吧?

06:21
The red and the yellow are not that different. But the fact is, it's because I didn't draw them on the same scale.

红色和黄色差得也不多。但事实是,那只是因为我没把它们画在同一个比例尺上。

06:29
It's hard to see, there's yellow and blue in there. So what about other outcomes of wealth?

现在很难看清了,里面还有黄色和蓝色。那么财富带来的其他结果呢?

06:35
Wealth is not just about wealth. We asked, what about things like health?

财富不只关乎财富本身。我们还问了:健康方面呢?

06:40
What about availability of prescription medication?

处方药能不能拿得到呢?

06:44
What about life expectancy? What about life expectancy of infants?

预期寿命呢?婴儿的预期寿命呢?

06:48
How do we want this to be distributed? What about education for young people?

我们希望这些东西如何分配?年轻人受的教育呢?

06:53
And for older people?

年长者受的教育呢?

06:55
And across all of those things, what we learned was that people don't like inequality of wealth, but there's other things where inequality,

在所有这些方面,我们得到的结论是:人们不喜欢财富上的不平等,但还有另一些不平等——

07:04
which is an outcome of wealth, is even more aversive to them: for example, inequality in health or education.

它们本身就是财富差距的结果——更让人反感,比如健康或教育上的不平等。

07:11
We also learned that people are particularly open to changes in equality when it comes to people who have less agency -- basically,

我们还发现,当涉及那些能动性较弱的人群时,人们格外愿意接受平等方面的改变——说白了,

07:19
young kids and babies, because we don't think of them as responsible for their situation.

就是幼童和婴儿,因为我们不认为他们该为自己的处境负责。

07:25
So what are some lessons from this? We have two gaps: We have a knowledge gap and we have a desirability gap And the knowledge gap is something that we think about, how do we educate people?

那么,从中能学到什么?我们有两道鸿沟:一道是认知鸿沟,一道是愿望鸿沟。认知鸿沟让我们思考:该怎么教育大众?

07:35
How do we get people to think differently about inequality and the consequences of inequality in terms of health, education, jealousy, crime rate, and so on?

怎么让人们换个角度去看待贫富差距,以及它在健康、教育、嫉妒、犯罪率等方面带来的后果?

07:44
Then we have the desirability gap. How do we get people to think differently about what we really want?

然后是愿望鸿沟。怎么让人们换个角度去想,我们真正想要的到底是什么?

07:50
You see, the Rawls definition, the Rawls way of looking at the world, the blind tasting approach, takes our selfish motivation out of the picture.

你看,罗尔斯的定义、罗尔斯看世界的方式、也就是盲品式的做法,把我们自私的动机从画面里剔除掉了。

07:58
How do we implement that to a higher degree on a more extensive scale?

我们怎样才能把它更深入、更大范围地落实下去?

08:03
And finally, we also have an action gap. How do we take these things and actually do something about it?

最后,我们还有一道行动鸿沟。我们怎样才能把这些想法真正变成行动?

08:09
I think part of the answer is to think about people like young kids and babies that don't have much agency, because people seem to be more willing to do this.

我想,答案的一部分是多想想幼童和婴儿这类能动性不足的人,因为人们似乎更愿意为他们做点什么。

08:19
To summarize, I would say, next time you go to drink beer or wine, first of all, think about,

总结一下:下次你去喝啤酒或葡萄酒时,首先想一想,

08:24
what is it in your experience that is real, and what is it in your experience that is a placebo effect coming from expectations?

你的体验里哪些是真实的,哪些只是源于预期的安慰剂效应?

08:33
And then think about what it also means for other decisions in your life, and hopefully also for policy questions that affect all of us.

然后再想想,这对你人生中的其他决定意味着什么,但愿也能想想,它对影响我们所有人的政策问题意味着什么。

08:40
Thanks a lot. (Applause)

非常感谢。(掌声)